Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

[happydays525]

I just want to say, that I too love Pinterest...agree with you Denise regarding your situation, hope that something changes so we can all go on happily pinning and exactly, what you share is on the internet for better or worse people!

And if we pin something that someone is "doing for a living", isn't that good? They are getting recognition no? They are becoming more visible via the web which is why they posted in the first place right? Assuming that they are linked up to their original image that is. I don't know, it's confusing. Has Pinterest released a statement about all of these concerns anywhere yet?

[DeniseM]

Jen, you have to read this article from a photographer who "makes his living" from photographs and what he says about his work and others using it. It's really interesting. He has a whole different view than many artists and is not protective at all about his work, to his obvious advantage.

http://www.stuckincustoms.com/2012/02/13/why-photographers-should-stop-complaining-about-copyright-and-embrace-pinterest/

[happydays525]

Perfect response! I know that I've had some things pinned and on those days when it's being pinned and repinned my hits to my blog are insane!! For me that is! Which isn't really saying much. But it's kind of exciting, so yes, I agree with what he's saying about traffic for sure. Great article showing another side to this, thanks for pointing it out.

[AnnaB]

Thanks for the link Denise! I'm going to read it. It's such an interesting discussion.

And of course you are right Jen - in many cases being pinned probably works like free advertising and is really great for the photographer/artist.

[anja_wade]

This is a really interesting discussion.
I don't know much about copyright law. I can understand professional photographers wanting to be given credit for their work. I think there is a lot that isn't well defined when it comes to intellectual property and the internet. Isn't that why we're having this big debate between Hollywood and silicon valley right now?
As far as Pinterest and scrapbookers are concerned, I don't see the big deal, really. If you're published regularly, you probably shouldn't post images online until you know it's not going to be pubbed, or has already been pubbed. If you're not trying to be published, it's free advertising for your blog. I know I've gotten blog hits from having my stuff pinned. I also agree that, short of someone doing an exact replica of one of your layouts, I don't think there's much that's truly new, unique, or original in scrapbooking. Everyone is influenced by everyone else, hopefully in a happy, friendly way. Trends come and go, and it's difficult to pinpoint how they begin.
I'd also like to add that I have actually purchased items that I've seen posted on Pinterest by jumping to a company's site from Pinterest. I'm sure there is a downside to having your products pinned, but there are several companies out there that have gotten my money because of Pinterest.
Anyway, those are my thoughts on the issue. I hope they didn't come across wrong.

[donnab]

such an interesting discussion and so much has been said that I agree with.

Lisa, mine was before pinterest too, back when I was on dts and getting pubbed a bit. I guess it feels good to move on from it. Running a business is quite different from scrapbooking though - that must have stung.

Great to see that everyone here still respects others.

[DeniseM]

Anna, I was reading back and didn't think you sounded harsh at all. I really appreciated the link you shared, it was very eye opening.

It's good to discuss things and what I love so much about Cocoa Daisy is we don't get all crazy and mean here if we disagree or don't see things the same way. You guys are awesome.

[ellen s]

I guess watermarking from a photography standpoint is probably a necessity. I never thought about a layout getting Pinned and then it gets picked up by publications and the need to track it down.

I guess maybe a good rule of thumb, at least for me moving forward, is that if I see a Pin button than they must be okay with it so go for it. If not, maybe shouldn't Pin it, I guess.

[helpmeronda]

i have been doing much debating and wondering/worrying about pinterest. Here are some of my thoughts. I have no problem people pinning my work, my videos, my photography. it's flattering and i consider it part of what i do for a living. yes i create but i also inspire & teach. some people may steal it whether it's pinned or not. Just because i am friendly and willing to share doesn't mean i encourage you to steal my work. I do work hard to bring the tutorials, the classes, and the information i bring. blogging itself takes a lot of work. But in the end I cannot control those who will do just that, steal. But i think that's my choice as to having stuff pinned. Others may have different opinions and we should respect them even if we don't necessarily agree with them. Denise you did just that. You showed respect and speaks volumes on who you are as a person. I have been in your shoes and it's not easy to deal with. I didn't just get an email. i was pretty much publicly flogged on her blog for linking to this person. I almost walked away from scrapbooking and the online world. i still carry those days with me. This is why i choose to be open. I don't want to ever be that person.

What i don't like is this: "By making available any Member Content through the Site, Application or Services, you hereby grant to Cold Brew Labs a worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, royalty-free license, with the right to sublicense, to use, copy, adapt, modify, distribute,license, sell , transfer, publicly display, publicly perform, transmit, stream, broadcast, access, view, and otherwise exploit such Member Content only on, through or by means of the Site, Application or Services."

That is taken directly from Pinterest: http://pinterest.com/about/terms/

and if you read through those terms, it says you are liable if anyone files a complaint about copyright infringement, not pinterest.

I'm not sure how i am proceeding. For now i am cleaning up my boards to make sure only direct links are on them. I have stopped for a bit doing an internal debate of whether i am sticking with pinterest or letting it go entirely. And it isn't because i want to stop sharing or telling people they cannot pin my stuff. I think pinterest needs to make some policy changes that protects both the pinner and the pinnee.

[DeniseM]

thanks for sharing your thoughts Ronda.
I noticed you shared that link on facebook from the photographer. that really is an interesting take on it.

I can't imagine someone being so outraged as to publicly call you out Ronda. You are so generous with your talents and always credit and encourage other artists. Oh well. To each her own. So glad I am part of this community!

Hopefully Pinterest will figure out the problems and adjust their terms which I agree Ronda are pretty scary and not very user friendly.

[okmama]

I'm sorry someone was rude to you, Denise. There's just no need for that.

I love Pinterest it's such a powerful way to share inspiration and ideas. But I've got the same reservations as Ronda. I don't see how they can legally claim rights to images pinned on their site. Sooner or later that will be challenged in court. I'm certainly no expert on American copyright law but I don't see that their terms of use will necessarily protect them if copyright infringement is being done using their servers. Not sure I want to be involved when it comes to that.

At any rate, it all leaves me looking for another way to store my online ideas/inspiration. I'll probably start using Evernote or something like that. I'll miss the sharing part of Pinterest, though. And that is the best part of it.

[jjflair]

Gosh, I have literally had a "Post Reply" message to this thread open and flashing at me for 3 days now. I wanted to read all the articles that were linked to, all the fine print of Pinterest's policies, and form a truly educated reply. But guess what? I can't! But, I know how my heart feels:

-Sorry that there are shitty people out there that copy things and claim them as their own.
-Sorry that nice, decent, loving, giving people end up getting the short stick from said shitty people.
-Sorry that the world can be such a greedy, grabby place which leaves the decent people with bad tastes in their mouths, having to lick wounds and second guess their good natures.
-Making sure images link back to the proper owner/source is good manners and practice, giving credit where credit is due.


Also, I've read this Pinterest paragraph 50+ times, and I think there is a piece that may be misinterpreted or overlooked:

"By making available any Member Content through the Site, Application or Services, you hereby grant to Cold Brew Labs a worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, royalty-free license, with the right to sublicense, to use, copy, adapt, modify, distribute,license, sell , transfer, publicly display, publicly perform, transmit, stream, broadcast, access, view, and otherwise exploit such Member Content only on, through or by means of the Site, Application or Services."

Pinterest has to operate within the law, so they cannot claim rights to the items being pinned. I believe Pinterest is saying that they have all the blah-blah-blah rights to stuff pinned on their site in the sense that they can use all of the pins within the context of Pinterest and Pinterest's business dealings. I believe the claim they are making is that it is legal for them to have these third party items pinned on their site. I don't think they are talking about selling individual art images or having T-shirts and mugs printed up with people's artwork. And in an attempt at CYA (cover your ass) they are saying that if anyone else uses the pinned stuff for anything other than personal use, that copyright infringement is between the actual owner of the pinned item and the naughty thief.

Anyway, that's what I believe they are saying in all their legal mumbo-jumbo. *sigh*

[DeniseM]

wow, great answer. I just read that part again that you quoted Lisa and I agree. Pinterest isn't really going to steal people's images to make into posters and sell. I just can't see it happening. I read an article that said that facebook and other media sites say pretty much the same thing. I think freaking out about Pinterest is just the new craze.

Anyone can steal ideas, images classes, etc. to use for profit as their own. If they want to they dont' need pinterest to do it. I think we all need to just take a deep breath.

[Funky Fairy]

Lisa that does make alot more sense.
Sounds like they are just covering themselves.

[Sharmaine]

prior to pinterest I would print out different things
noone would ever know that I did that
Along comes pinterest and I save on ink
Now everyone knows what interests me.

I really don't see anyone suing anyone for pinning. I think that it's more for people who do make money from copying/reusing/pirating someone elses work. I'm not changing the way I pin because I know that it's all pure inspiration. Inspiration that spraks creativity.

I also think that the whole pinterest interest is a little like pirated movies. There was a big hype when it all started and now it seems there are copied movies in almost every home. I used the panic that men dressed in black would barge through the door if we ever put a copied dvd into the dvd player.

So I am on the sidelines reading and watching with interest, pinterest lol

Side note, do you call it PIN-Interst or PIN-Trest???