Cocoa Daisy Subscription

Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

A place to talk about all things non-scrapbooking related.

Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby DeniseM » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:53 pm

Okay I am warning you now, this is going to be a bit of a rant. I want to say first before I start that if you have ever had a photo, layout, craft project, tutorial or cool tip actually stolen from you and used by another person for financial or personal gain, I am sooo sorry. That is totally wrong, it sucks big time.

Okay. I got an email the other day from someone who is a scrapbooker, crafter. She has a blog that I do not frequently visit but do occasionally. She had a layout posted which I pinned. I checked the link and it went directly back to her blog. I also posted her name in my pin. No where on her blog does she say anything about not sharing her images. There is no copyright info at all. She emailed me and was extremely upset because I pinned her layout. She used the exact words "copyright infringement" She also expressed concern that people could use her layout design and copy it in their own work and pass it off as their design.

I immediately went onto pinterest and deleted the pin. It was not repinned thankfully. I then emailed her back and apologized and told her I deleted her pin and would not pin her layouts again. I was very polite and did not defend myself or make excuses.

Okay, now here's the rant. I did not say this to her because she has every right to not want people to pin her creations. She is the owner of said layout, not me so I did what she wanted me to do and apologized. But really?

Questions to ponder, Why have a blog where you post your artwork, photos, designs if you don't want people to see them and appreciated them by sharing? Like I said, the pin linked directly to her blog and her name was clearly on the pin. Do people intentionally "steal" or lift layouts and pass them off as their own? How often does that happen? I really like the layout but I can almost guarantee that someone, somewhere has done almost exactly the same design and some of the elements. How many people have really come up with something that was totally completely from their own creativity and not influenced in anyway by someone else's work. Are we getting a little hysterical over the "copyright infringement" problem? This was not a blog for money either. It was a blog like my blog. No advertising, no big following.

About a month ago I noticed a layout of mine pinned on someone's board. It was thrilling. It had my name on it, linked back to my blog, whatever. great, thanks for pinning me as Ronda says.

I know that Pinterest itself has the rights to any and all of the images on the website. meaning, they can use them anyway they want. Worst case scenario? Pinterest publishes a book with images from the website and one of your images is in the book with out any acknowledgement or payment. Yeah, that sucks but the sky is not falling. I would probably do a blog post with the book and a photo of my image. I don't know. I just don't get what the huge problem is for little ol scrapbookers like me and most of us. I am not talking about people who write books or sell tutorials or teach classes even. Just regular people like me that love to create things and throw them up on the internet to hopefully get a positive response.

and hey, you can pin anything you want from my blog. just saying :P

rant over.
thoughts appreciated.
User avatar
DeniseM
Design Team
Design Team
 
Posts: 6050
Images: 310
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:02 am

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby mlepitts » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:18 pm

ronda and i were having this discussion last week. i'm probably way too ho hum about it all. i've never had my work "stolen" (i did have someone retool a tutorial i did, but i can't prove it) so perhaps i'd feel differently, but i think if we post things to the internet, we give up some of our rights. and i'm fine with it. there are much bigger things i should be worrying about, more grand scheme sort of things, not if someone pinned my work.

when an artist's work is taken and used for profit by another without any sort of agreement or knowledge by the original artist, then that's another story. entirely. we need to respect each other and our art. i think it's so important to do what you did denise and credit/link back to the original owner. and that you'd be so quick to fix when requested, it just makes me like you more.
User avatar
mlepitts
Design Team
Design Team
 
Posts: 3140
Images: 161
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:47 pm
Location: Denver, CO

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby donnab » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:24 pm

such a sticky thing...........she must have been having a bad day. Sound to me like you properly pinned so whats her beef? Maybe she shouldn't post her work if she doesn't want to be inspiring others.....Having said that, I have had someone literally steal my designs and not give me credit - that stinks. I received several comments from friends asking me if it was my work, so many people spotted it. I was upset, and stopped posting for a long time. I felt like I had a stalker. You, on the other hand, did the right thing by crediting her. Sadly, I think this happens a lot.
User avatar
donnab
Cocoa Daisy
Cocoa Daisy
 
Posts: 376
Images: 16
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:28 am
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby ellen s » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:53 pm

Don't have yourself out there if you don't want ppl looking at it, pinning it, sharing it on FB, or anything. It really is that simple.

What is the legal definition of copyright infringement? And if you did it, how is Pinterest even legal at all is my question? Do we need to ask permission to Pin ppl's work?

You totally did the right thing. I always put the name in, too. I don't always know it though, and that has stopped me from pinning before but not to repin come to think of it. But the link is there...so you can find the original owner if you need to. I think you handled the situation and yourself beautifully. Cheers.
User avatar
ellen s
Cocoa Daisy
Cocoa Daisy
 
Posts: 610
Images: 66
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:55 pm
Location: pa

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby StephanieEloise » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:32 pm

Here's the deal. IMO, if you don't want people seeing/copying/sharing/spreading your work, THEN DON'T POST IT ON THE INTERNET. If you want something protected, GET A LAWYER, A PATENT, A TRADEMARK. Otherwise, too bad.

I'm a designer, so I totally get it from her standpoint, and I've had people "steal" my layouts, down to the exact paper and position. I also have a job, a family and too much to worry about than to track people down who have pinned my work. I would be honored at the very least, that someone even cared to do so.
User avatar
StephanieEloise
Design Team
Design Team
 
Posts: 955
Images: 102
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:16 pm
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby happydays525 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:00 am

I know this is different as in they are speaking about photography specifically but it's interesting and applies to this topic somewhat so I thought I would share.

http://ddkportraits.com/2012/02/why-i-t ... on-boards/

It's got me thinking about things that I have pinned now too Denise, yikes! I too was flattered when individuals started pinning my layouts or projects, some recipes have been pinned too. I don't know, after hearing your story and reading this post I'm wondering if I'm going to just peruse the boards now more than pin? What the heck?
User avatar
happydays525
Cocoa Daisy
Cocoa Daisy
 
Posts: 2430
Images: 338
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:44 am
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby audreykit » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:41 am

I think the bottom line is that it is the artists decision on where they want their work to be posted. If they only want it on their blogs, then that's their right.
(and I want to add that I totally agree with "then why put it out there to begin with"....I'm just saying I think that is whats behind the whole "legal aspect of it).

I just finished reading that link that Jen posted before I hopped on over here to stalk some threads...it really makes you think!

BUT, if some has a pin it button on their site or near their work then I say pin away!

Do you ladies pin your own stuff??
User avatar
audreykit
Cocoa Daisy
Cocoa Daisy
 
Posts: 991
Images: 124
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:14 pm
Location: Fayetteville, NY

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby audreykit » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:47 am

Oh one more thing I was thinking...if when you pinned something YOU were the only one to see it, then I think it's a different story. But when you pin something, everyone sees it....
User avatar
audreykit
Cocoa Daisy
Cocoa Daisy
 
Posts: 991
Images: 124
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:14 pm
Location: Fayetteville, NY

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby AnnaB » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:22 am

I think Pinterest is in big trouble. I am considering deleting my pinterest account. It's awful, because I've loved it so much, but it seems like the "terms and conditions" just aren't ok. (I just read the link you posted earlier this morning Jen.)

Denise, I have also been flattered when I've found my work on Pinterest, and I believe that's the reaction that most of us would get.

The problem with Pinterest though, is that they store the image in when it's pinned and if you remove something that you've pinned it will still stay on the site. I don't know if this only happens if it has been re-pinned, or if it's always the case.

I know scrapbookers who had layouts picked up for publication, that they had posted on their own blogs. Before pinterest they could easily remove the layouts from the internet, when they were going for publication. But today they couldn't, because the layouts were spread all over pinterest.

It's a problem. It's a huge problem.

But I'm not saying that I think you made something wrong Denise. I've been pinning myself. That's what Pinterest is all about!

...but from a strictly legal point of view, I don't think it's ever ok to post someone elses work without having the permission, no matter how much credit you give. You're not allowed to take someone elses photo without asking. BUT since that's what Pinterest is all about, and since most of us don't mind... it's sort of a gray area.

Really tricky... Am I hitting the delete button...? :(
User avatar
AnnaB
Design Team
Design Team
 
Posts: 7924
Images: 446
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:31 pm
Location: Sweden, Strängnäs

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby happydays525 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:31 am

Here is another article that I woke to this morning. I agree Anna, I think they may be in trouble if not now, soon. It would be nice if you could pin something and have the option to make it private for your eyes only.

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/blog/ ... ml?ana=fbk
User avatar
happydays525
Cocoa Daisy
Cocoa Daisy
 
Posts: 2430
Images: 338
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:44 am
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby Funky Fairy » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:10 am

I feel really chilled out when it comes to my scrapbooking stuff.
Flattered if someone pins my stuff etc.
For most of us it is just a lovely hobby and we appreciate each other's art.
As long as we follow the rules with pinning and blogging etc, I see no harm.

But I have been very upset in the past when I've had people copy my actual 'work' designs.
It's happened twice where I've had people work for me and then try and set up their own business highly influenced by my business.

The worse one was a friend of 10yrs who was working for me 4 days a week up until a couple of years ago. She set up a business doing the same thing without telling me. I found out by a couple of friends mentioning it as they'd seen her facebook links to her new website. She created wedding stationery designs almost identical, calling them the same names. Some of my wedding favours I've created are completely unique and my own creations, she copied.
I was so so upset, especially when she started advertising in the same magazines as me.
I took legal advice and could have started legal procidings (Ade wanted me to) but I decided it wasn't what I wanted. I left it. It knocked so much confidence from me for a long time though and left me feeling so crap that someone had stolen my ideas and was making money from what has taken me many many years to establish.
All along though I've believed 'what goes around, comes around'.

I noticed the end of last year that she was no longer in the main magazine I advertise in. Then last month a new client contacted me as she'd been let down really last minute by this lady and needed her stuff making for her wedding this weekend. Which I did.
This month the website is no longer live and when I checked up in her on Facebook, she started working in a care home last month.

'What goes around, did certainly come around'.

Denise, you did no wrong in my eyes. I hope you don't feel bad.
User avatar
Funky Fairy
Design Team
Design Team
 
Posts: 9287
Images: 758
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:28 am
Location: UK

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby DeniseM » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:26 am

really enjoying your thoughts on this. I seriously go back and forth to just not caring, getting pissed off and going into denial. I am not angry at this person who emailed me I am just angry at the whole situation. It just sucks. The internet is the internet people. If you are on it, talking, doing business, commenting, facebooking, uploading, downloading, you are pretty much in it and what you do and say will be around for ever. Now I come from the delightfully average camp. Meaning, I assume that nothing I say or do is all that exciting enough to have most people pay attention so I don't even really think about it. But this got me thinking. Our words must be intellectual property as well. Can we not use quotes in our art work? I see a lot of that. I actually have had things I said quoted on line. (no idea why, I doubt I say very witty things to be repeated)

I admire so many artists and designers but let's be honest. I see ALOT of recycling, reworking, changing of a lot of the same things over and over through the years. Birds, Owls, certain quotes, big photos, little photos, spray paint splashes, empty space, etc. Stamp designers churn out the same designs from one company to the next. really, lets relax a little. My point about the whole "stealing my designs, idea, etc" thing is that is pretty harsh language for something that happens quite often. Again, I am not talking about someone actually with ill intent, copying to the t a layout or something else of yours and using it for profit or to say, "hey I made this I am fabulous" The whole spray paint business? which is now "misting business" I have been spray painting on my layouts since 2000. I am sure I wasn't the first. You know what I am trying to say?

I don't mean to be snarky, this is just my pissed off and annoyed side. loooong, heavy sigh. When I feel like this I just want stop using the internet all together.

Great articles Jen and Anna. Anna, the one you linked was especially interesting. I am sure Pinterest either will rework their site or close all together which is too bad. Love having all the inspo in one place. I know some people hate it but I really kind of hate facebook so to each his own I guess.
This was from the article:

The copyright statute does go on to say, however, that certain use of copyrighted work may constitute “fair use”, in which case you would have limited rights to use the copyrighted work. Specifically, 17 U.S.C. §107 states that “the fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship or research, is not an infringement of copyright.” The “such as” language indicates that this list of uses is not exhaustive and the statute goes on to list the factors that should be considered in determining whether a use of copyrighted work is “fair use.” Those factors are:

the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
the nature of the copyrighted work;
the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.


It goes on to say that really the problem is that the photos that are on pinterest are not "thumbnails" they are the actual size that could be printed out so why go back to the original. They totally have a point.

This is another interesting article from a photographer who says YEAH I LOVE PINTEREST you should read it. He says embrace pinterest.
http://www.stuckincustoms.com/2012/02/13/why-photographers-should-stop-complaining-about-copyright-and-embrace-pinterest/
User avatar
DeniseM
Design Team
Design Team
 
Posts: 6050
Images: 310
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:02 am

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby AnnaB » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:30 am

Funky Fairy wrote:I feel really chilled out when it comes to my scrapbooking stuff.
Flattered if someone pins my stuff etc.
For most of us it is just a lovely hobby and we appreciate each other's art.
As long as we follow the rules with pinning and blogging etc, I see no harm.


I'm sorry if I sounded very harsh this morning! Denise, I agree with what Lisa is saying above and I don't think you did wrong. In most cases what Lisa says totally applies to how I feel about my work being pinned or in other ways being highlighted/displayed at blogs etc too!

But... I still think there is a problem... :P

Hopefully Pinterest will change their terms, at least making things a bit better. They have no reason at all to claim the right to sell images that people pin. And I do believe that copyright IS something very important...! (Gosh, I even work with intellectual property... ;) )
User avatar
AnnaB
Design Team
Design Team
 
Posts: 7924
Images: 446
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:31 pm
Location: Sweden, Strängnäs

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby DeniseM » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:32 am

Lisa, I posted mine at the same time you posted yours so I hadn't read yours. so sorry that happened to you with your business. You are right though, you do it so much better and now she isn't in business. I just want to say I think you are awesome. :)
User avatar
DeniseM
Design Team
Design Team
 
Posts: 6050
Images: 310
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:02 am

Re: Pinterest and copyright.....a discussion/rant

Postby AnnaB » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:38 am

I didn't see your new post at first Denise. I know... it's so tricky! :P

And yes, the written word is protected by copyright too, but it has to be something "special"... and you can't just put down any words on a paper (or on the internet ;) ) and then say that no one else can use them. I don't know where the law does draw the line... :)

But I think that I've read that with art, it's only an infringement if you are creating something VERY similar.

I think it's good that it is most often accepted in scrapbooking to be inspired, and even to copy, as long as you give the proper credits!

But it gets tricky on Pinterest because so much of what is pinned (and of what I've been pinning too) is stuff that people actually do for a living.

Anyway... I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. I think it is good that this is being discussed!

And also - Lisa, I am so sorry that happened with your friend and her stealing your ideas! Crazy! :(
User avatar
AnnaB
Design Team
Design Team
 
Posts: 7924
Images: 446
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:31 pm
Location: Sweden, Strängnäs

Next

Return to The Day to Day Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests